Well How About THAT ...

Well now I must say at the outset here that I treat most of the "questionnaires" that circulate around the usual suspects like chain letters (which I ALWAYS break on principal - have ever since I was a kid!) or perhaps mosquitoes perhaps.

They are an unfortunate fact of life to be slapped until they die.

To be fair - I do tend to read them first and occasionally I actually fill them out - but then I throw them away.

Today I got one in the mailbox and figured: "Lucky you today I am a generous Ogre!"

I was therefore stunned when I found it thought provoking and in some ways revelatory. In fact it was so much so that I thought it should go in here. While I should be clear (for those who due to extremely limited deductive capabilities or no memories haven't spotted it) that these young people are about as far removed from my views on most things as it is possible to be and still have corporeal existence - I have offered my insights.

Here follows their questions and my answers - I found the combination revealing.

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Hi there

Yes I know there is seen to be a need for anonymity and so on ...

But frankly, given answering many of the questions it would be hard pressed for some of us not to be identified!! lol

Also in the later ideals I would consider it to be anti productive in my case. I consider myself something of a resource and if I can be of use by relating what I have experienced in greater detail then that is something I am not averse to.

You and yours must feel free to contact me in this regard should you wish to irrelevant of secret ballots and so forth.

Best of luck in the undertaking

Scott

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Pagan Community Weekend – Common Problems at Pagans Events Questionnaire

How long have you been practicing paganism for?

17 years openly

Do you belong to a coven/group or are you solitary? (If solitary please continue to Question 3.)

I am a solitary, (in that I do not work with a regular group as most understand the pastime) that is connected to a larger grouping that would be considered a coven so I don’t readily properly fit either option. I’ll answer them all for your edification.

If you belong to a coven or Pagan group, please talk about any problems you have experienced within this group? (Arguments, authority problems, organisation problems, etc.)

This assumes there are some but my only sticking point is that it is irritating to have to pay toll at the bridge to get there when I need to cross town to do
so.

Do you run any covens or pagan groups? If so, what is your position in your group?

Not currently as such though I am a part of a family group it is not really the same thing.

What tradition/path is your coven/group?

Traditional Witchcraft.

How long have you been part of this coven/group?

Inducted a little over eight years ago.

Are there any changes or improvements you would like to see in this coven/group? If so, have you discussed this with your coven/group?

Frankly I would like it to have less public contact but that is not really anything that can be altered at the moment.

(If you are not a solitary practitioner, please continue to Question 4.) Have you ever been part of coven or pagan group?

Yes several.

Have you ever experienced any problems with not being part of a coven or pagan group within the pagan community? If so, please explain.

Indeed. Years ago when I first came to Brisbane if you weren’t part of a group you hadn’t much of a chance. Though things are somewhat different now (from what I hear from others) the hurdles still exist in that groups will be cliques no matter how well intentioned and that politics, (while often derided by many) is knowledge that can be vital in plotting out ones future.

Have you ever run a pagan event or gathering? (If not, please continue to Question 5.)

Not as such but have been part of the people who have.

Which events/gatherings have you run and what is the purpose of them?

I was a part of the Ritual Committee for the original Pagan 98. The purpose of it originally was to get different persuasions and traditions to have something to do with each other in an amicable fashion. This hadn’t really happened before in this state and some wryly noted that it didn’t wind up happening then either!
Lol

I have also presented at the PCP Ritual Experience Weekends. Though neither of these is running per se – it will be useful info.

Did you have any problems with participants at these events/gatherings? If so, how did you try to fix them?

Due to the nature of the political wrangling at the time there were any number of almost problems. Quite a climate of fear and distrust just below the surface. My group at the time went anyway and attempted where possible to act in a mature
fashion which we believed to be the best thing we had to offer such a situation.

There was also a slight problem in that several people did not heed the fact that the main ritual was a magical working and therefore quite unsuitable for children. I personally had to explain why using my own practice as an example to several people.

Did you have any organisational problems?

More than I care to remember. God kings and serfs.

Did you receive any complaints?

There were several. I even received some even though I am not the most approachable of people. This can be easily explained in that the person who was supposed to have run it all frankly dismissed any dissent (during and after the fact) as blithely as he did so many other things before.

Have you ever attended a pagan event, gathering or workshop in Australia? (If not, please continue to Question 6.)

Sure have – several.

Did you observe any problems at any of these events/gatherings?

There are always some at any kind. I would have to say over all that the ones I have seen are due largely to the inexperience and naïveté of the programmers and presenters. Naturally you will always get the politics and the occasional stirrer but strategies for such need to be worked out before hand and often new hands get too bogged down in other things to explore such things effectively.

Often too, the reason is not fully explored – are they socials or working functions? Summits or courses, lectures or workshops and for who precisely? The range of faiths is always droned on about but it is the nitty gritty of the different practices that makes for bumps in my experience in either of the several cases. Some groups for example do not even have the same nomenclature much less etiquette or culture and this affects differences in actual working procedure.

Did you experience personally any problems at any of these events/gatherings?

Most definitely. Years ago at the wiccan conference I was amazed at how few actual wiccans there were and was therefore unable to adapt properly to the sort of etiquettes required in order to interact properly. Then there was the Pagan 98 which had the difficulties I had already described – many of the attendee were quite unfamiliar with actual magical practice and so were totally bewildered as to why their children could not participate and indeed many of them needed to have the difference between (to use modern parlance) the sabbat and the esbat explained to them and furthermore why that was the key in that issue.

The same could be said on a lesser account in the recent PCP weekends where I found that many of the attendees had little or no understanding of how even the simplest of things such as eating might be approached with caution by some from differing backgrounds or how the ritual to hand may well be not acceptable to those from a non Neopagan background.

How were these problems fixed, if they were?

At the Pagan 98 – as I have said in that issue though there were many others and time and space don’t permit proper reference to others – not that all of them were. At the wiccan conference I had to think on my feet and be ingratiating. At the PCP well the point of them was education of people about differing backgrounds and so on – and that meant being a little gracious on all sides.

How do you feel these events could have been improved?

Actually all that said I think they were all in their way important and needed. In many ways the Pagan and Occult communities need to grow up a little and such hiccups I think are not only natural but required. Like the fact that there is an entirely natural aversion of sorts by way of “generation gap” (if you like) between younger groups and practitioners and “old hands” it needn’t be so if everyone remembers who they are and why the other is unlikely to be too accepting of things that are “unlike”.

Consider exemplary, a report I had of one of the REW’s where there were complaints that some people were in and out and all over the place during the ritual – to many ounger practitioners the idea of circle formality and rules is somewhat “old hat” here the older practitioners consider them “a must” as some of them are required to nsure success to the level they desire. *Shrugs* This is a big topic and one I don’t think space here permits proper exploration of.

Have you ever led a pagan presentation or workshop? (If not, please continue to Question 7.)

Yep.

Did you have any problems with participants?

They say there is “always one” and it is true – and generally more than one however, with a bit of practice one can learn to turn heckling for or against to the proper advantage of all. Like the fact that most often one needs to itch properly to the level of the audience – these are simple process problems that proper organisation and delivery can overcome if it is given a pinch of “thinking on the feet”.

Was there anything in particular that participants were nervous or unwilling to do?

Most people are nervous about doing anything at all and that is a simple fact of group dynamics. However I find that if you allow some form of praxis and practice that will be good primarily for individuals and thence for them all in a group it tends to work better. Another fact of dynamics is that those in a best position to help the larger whole are those whose needs are already met. So you give them something for them .. a treat and a work to better themselves and then tell them that it further works better if more than one do it at once. That is the basis for coven work after all.

Have you ever had any complaints?

Yes. One or two. You will always get them whether it be that they disagree with what you say, think, do or how you do it or how you put it across – one simply cannot please everyone. You pitch as wide as you can without losing focus and pith and accept criticism as something to bear in mind next time if you have the wherewithal.

If you did your presentation/workshop as part of an event, did you have any problems with the organisers?

No not really. There is always the last minute jigging about and having to hassle people for the program to be sorted out and so on but that is often half the fun of an event and it keeps you on edge which I always argue can only be good for your presentation.

Are you currently, or have you ever, had a pagan teacher? (If not, please continue to question 8.)

I think you need to repunctuate that question. Lol I assume you mean whether or not I had or am one. Well I don’t teach much these days – I advise occasionally. I have run groups of a teaching nature.

What problems have you experienced with pagan students?

The main one I would say is that most of them are not actually committed to excellence. It should be said that any class is like this no matter what the bent BUT the occult study also has the problem of mystical mixing (the notion that there are no “wrong” answers etc which is not nearly as prevalent as many expect!) and the propensity of students to go to another group, get three fifths of info from there and turn up at the next class as experts in every field. Then of course there is always the one or two that see all classes as a climb towards toppling masters and setting up their own satrapies. Still that is what keeps the teacher on their toes so *shrugs*

How often do/did you have students?

Between 91 and 2000 except for (I think) about two years I ran groups and tutored students. During most of that time I had at least one or two students (up to five at one stage for six months) in residence and saw anywhere from two to ten more for at least one night a week.

For about how long do/did you teach students?

See above

Did they leave do to them finishing their teachings with you or for other reasons? If other, please explain.

Some left to go elsewhere, some lost interest, some burned out, some stayed the whole course and some got kicked out for the usual array of reasons.

Are you currently, or have you ever, been taught by a pagan teacher? If not, are you searching for one and have you had problems searching for one?

I have been taught by several of differing persuasions. It is always difficult finding the right one but the knock backs and problems are also in their own way every bit as instructive as finding the right one is important.

Have you ever experienced any problems with a pagan teacher? If so, please explain.

Indeed but most of them have been due to inexperience and misunderstanding on my part. Naturally there will always be the unscrupulous and I have seen several and even had a “hand” in getting rid of some of them but if everyone is vigilant and justice minded such don’t last long and their damage is limited.

Have you ever had a problem attending a pagan event where you don’t know anyone else attending?

Frankly, I have only ever been to one or two where I didn’t know at least a couple of people. They were small gatherings to which I was sent as an ambassador so I don’t think it counts.

What do you think could be improved in the pagan community? Anything you would like to see happen?

My main one I think would be education toward a more realistic understanding of how communities work. The facts that there is not nor should we ever want A community is perhaps the first one. There are already many communities and they serve their people well – what we need is to open up communications between them rather than trying to pretend that they are all one thing when they manifestly do not share the sort of socio cultural markers required for such.

Furthermore perhaps accepting the structures of the same, perhaps by way of looking at some sort of broad and loose based collection of older practitioners as some sort of contactable advisory bunch for anyone of the younger cadres to get a hold of. I think that if the communities started to make wider use of their more experienced members in way of advisory capacities then they would feel more included and perhaps even open up more to the newer practitioners – this could in turn perhaps facilitate wider contact between these same and their counterparts in other communities.

Do you find it hard to find out information about pagan gatherings and events?

Not really though I think there should be regional pages under no particular groups jurisdiction. How about something like Brisbane Pagan Events.com … owned and run by someone who is not a part of any of the other groups in Bris?

Do you find it hard to attend pagan gatherings and events? If so, please explain why.

Yes in fact I do because I have a family with two kids. One is an infant and the other a two year old. Even given the crèche type set ups and so on I don’t care to be separated from my family at such things and by so I do make it hard for myself. Also the fact that many of these events and so occur out in the middle of nowhere means a caravan of stuff needs to be carted about just to get there if one intends to stay any length of time.

Any other problems you can think of that you have experienced or heard of in the Australian pagan community?

I think the main one is simply that instead of working with what is there – everyone wants “a community” and rarely this is amongst those who have investigated how an actual community works, how it is structured or what it is for. Most certainly I also think this is something that further facilitates the level of glee that occurs when one thing or another falls apart – communities like all organisms are formed, live and serve purpose and then are dissolved when the reason is past.

This should not be a matter of political amusement but regarded simply as a tatement of fact – nothing more than that. The rest is as have already been said –more actual contact between groups and communities is a better beginning.