Following up ...

Now I know I know ... recently I made a point of implying that Amberlady knows who I am with the words:

"Well now perhaps Amberlady is as ignorant of my existence as she was of Granny Garner - but you know what? She isn't actually! The Pagan Network grapevine isn't THAT ineffective - well not on this sort of thing anyway."

Now some of you may think I was being unfair. I admit heartily to bias afterall!

Ok, let's look at it shall we? Well here goes:

Let us begin with the fact that on The Pagan Network boards I go by the Moniker "THAT_Scott "

I have already given the quote on my weblog referring to what turns up if you do a search of "Pickingill Initiate":

"Google: "Consider that typing "Pickingill Initiate" into the google search engine yields (at my end) what .. five results .... third down is one referring to me and says and I quote:

"OccultCorpus - View Profile: yup-that_scott Location: Brisbane, Queensland, Au; Gender: Male; Paradigm: Pickingill Initiate. yup-that_scott is not a member of any public groups
...www.occultcorpus.com/forum/member.php?u=199 - 23k - Cached - Similar pages
-""

You will note that I use practically the same moniker; I mention that I am from Brsibane and on my Pagan Network Intro I say basically what I have said everywhere else simply omitting the word Pickingill. So you see one would be hard pressed not to put "the two and two together". Amber lady isn't stupid, she often treats others as if they are but she is not. It is highly unlikely that she couldn't "do this math"!

So the idea that she couldn't know that there were others is well ... problematic if she did any research at all. (Let us leave aside for the moment the idea that I have which states that she quite routinely comments on subjects with onlythe very slightest of any research being done on it!)

But what of the objection that she may never have bothered to look at all?

I put it to you that is unlikely as I was on a thread of particular interest to her about "Boasting to fit in" (she started it not long after I posted my introduction.)

It is also worth noting that elrohana thought it pertinent to others too - even though later she made haste to distance herself from the group of names she invokes ("Al, Amber, Cav, Pellar, Steve.........?") in reply # 12. Again do not take my word on it, see for yourself at: http://www.pagan-network.org/forums/index.php?topic=25614.0 !) Amber studiously avoided my post. I also put it to you that when I got on I started a thread about Cecil Williamson - to which she had nothing to add: "That in itself is quite like this font of all knowlege" thought I at the time ...

Now you may think that irrelevant ... but consider:

When you go to Amber's reintroduction in 2008 you will see amongst it the following:

********************************************************************************** Intro from an old fashioned Pagan on: 2008/Oct/21 @ 16:25:01

I can't help noticing that every time I open the Introductions folder of late flocks of cartoon blue birds fly out, sit on my monitor and crap paper pellets all over the desk, yesterday there was even a couple of cute little rabbits, I am sure I saw Bambi lurking somewhere behind the main processor and I won't even talk about the repetitive strains of "We all belong to the Goddess" that refuses to obey the mute button.

Anyway I thought I would re-post my intro just to make the point that all though I accept that cute and cuddly Nature worship is a part of Paganism and that it probably is about to totally extinguish the old fashioned blood and guts type there are still a few of us still about, maybe others like me won't be totally put off joining PN by reading the intros.

Name: The Amberlady - Just that, I use no other name while on line

Age or Age range: 48

Gender: Female

......

Any interesting stories or facts about yourself? I have been a Pagan all my life and for want of a better word have been practicing since I was 17. I don't believe in gods, magic, otherkin, telepathy, crystals or any New Age crap. I was part of a team from the UK military that investigated the possible use of telepathy and telekinesis and found it doesn't exist. I studied Ley lines and found they don't exist. I am a member of a group that supplies beaters for game shoots all over the UK. I feel that Nature should be respected, not loved or worshiped and that we should take advantage of it just like any other creature does.

What attracted you to be a pagan/wiccan/other? Nothing attracted me, it is just what I am

So, you’ve joined PN, what attracted you to it, what are you hoping to gain from PN? Actually I have been here for years

If you could be reincarnated as anything, what/who would it be? Something that crept into fluffies bedrooms at night and made them widdle the bed in fright

Anything else you'd like to tell us? Real Paganism does still exist, you just have to fight your way through the sickly sweet New Age syrup in order to find it

*************************************************************************************
This is interesting really .... apart from the rather almost desperate sounding attempt to project as "hard core" and "old guard" you will note the following:

In 2008 she states she was (or was about): 48
Let's work on the assumption that she was actually 48.

She also said she was "always a pagan" (ho hum nothing new there!) but had been practicing since the age of 17. Now I note that is quite a specific age.

Now I know when I go back over my life I have to work it out at each point. This is why I typed it out once and do a lot of cut and paste these days. I remembered what happened when based on what house I lived in, who I was in contact with etc and by these things which do tend to stick in my memory I worked it out.

So when I saw "17" (not 18 as a coming of age or "16" an in the sweet age) I thought: "I wonder what sticks in her memory as precisely that year?" and decided to look at the year in question. I asked myself: "So how long ago was that?"

Well 48 - 17 = 31 .... so she staretd practicing 31 years ago - ok that is a start.

So then I asked: "What year was that?" Well 2008 - 31 = 1977 Hmm .. ok ... why does THAT ring a bell for me? Oh that's right I remember now!! Do we know anything that happened at that time? Well actually yes! We look at Amber's weblog and what do we see?

"Canewdon is a small village outside of Southend-on-Sea situated on high ground overlooking the marshes around the mouth of the river Crouch an area rich in stories of ghosts and witches, Canewdon itself used to boast the title of the most Haunted village in England and during my time there in the late 70s it was a magnet for ghost hunters who flocked there each Halloween to camp out in the churchyard or visit the nearby Anchor Inn. During my time there the most popular story was that anyone who run around the church tower three times anticlockwise at midnight would meet the Devil, there was also a number of houses who boasted ghosts and the Landlord of the Anchor would happily spend the evening telling tales of cold spots in the bar and mysterious moving glasses etc.


Occasionally a local would also tell the story of Old George, a farm labourer who lived to a great age and was thought of as a witch, even more occasionally somebody would mention the story that while the church tower stood there would be witches in Canewdon even though several other Essex village boast the same including nearby Hadleigh home of James (Cunning) Murrell whose story was well known among local folklorist and historians.

I left Canewdon for the last time in 1981 and you can imagine my surprise when after entering the wild and wacky world of Internet Paganism I began reading stories of George Pickingill of Canewdon ....."
(1/18/08 01:19 pm , Campaign for Resurrection of Authentic Paganism
(C.R.A.P.), http://the-amberlady.livejournal.com/21188.html)

Well that last bit has to be subjective in the light of recet enquiry which shows Amber didn't speak to the local folklorists but never mind, back to the issue to hand.
--- Sooooo Amber found herself in Canewdon in "the late 70's" do you think it could have been 77? I think it might have been!

(Well actually I think that only in the position of setting aside the fact that I also have a sneaky suspicion that this number may have been contrived to avoid the questions about how selectively little she remembers about the subject of Old George while being there!! I think personally that this number was designed to encompass her time there retrospectively.)

But I digress, so Amber goes to canewdon in late 70's (77) and that is when she started practicing. That is convenient really.

Another interesting point is found when we return to the point that my first thread on Pagan Network was about Cecil Williamson asking if there was anyone about who knew him. I noted at the time I got no answers from any of the Anti George Group. I really rather expected to be baited at the very least on the subject by them given who I was so I was a bit amazed that nothing came. Indeed I was surprised at how little at all came the way on that subject at all and just put it down to the whole "There never were any witches " party line that P.N is famed for.
You can imagine, (given this state of affairs) how amused I was then to see this:

Re: spell bottles, history of.
« Reply #23 on: 2009/Jan/16 @ 22:32:06 »
Quote
Have you ever been to the museum?

Better then that I worked there for a few week during the summer of1977. of course that was in the days of Cecil Williamson who was more interested in a genuine museum of witchcraft then a tourist attraction.

By Amberlady!!! Hmmm ... well Ok yes working there for a few weeks would hardly qualify as knowing him. But frankly she has been happy to imply expertise based on the same sort of ratio before hasn't she?

And there is that magic year again! 1977!! She WAS a "busy little bee" in that year wasn't she (!?) but even given that state of affairs ... the lack of even nipping with regard to my query on Cecil Williamson is again an odd thing to forget (assuming it wasn't directly avoided of course!). Surely from what I have heard about the man, having had contact with him may have stuck in the memory!

Some may say this omission points to the fact she just never read my thread ... well her memory on this is not just selective around me! I point you to a post recently by JeremyTrewinDixon (emphasis mine):

"Wicca and Witchcraft / Re: George Pickingill's nine covens on: 2009/Jan/08 @ 07:39:18 Message by jeremytrewindixon
http://www.pagan-network.org/forums/index.php topic=19416.msg251775/lmsg251775

Quote: Agreed. He was talking about popular perception.

Fine......it is certainly true that I read Sethur's remarks through the lens of an earlier remark of his about how pathetic it was to seek magical lineage for a "wife-swapping club", in context the wife-swapping reference appeared to be to Wicca. But I could be wrong, Sethur can in any case speak for himself, and furthermore I personally am not too fussed. 8)Getting back to the issue at hand I note from the ever-helpful Moon , page 224, that Gerald Gardner's first paper for the Folklore Society, in 1939, was on a collection of alleged witchcraft artefacts from Essex, supposed to be connected with Matthew Hopkins the notorious witch-finder. I'm finding it hard to imagine that Gardner, given his particular interests, was unaware of the reputation of Canewdon and Rochford Hundred in Essex. That reputation is independent of Pickingill. (Cunning Murrell had been written of the the Strand , not an obscure journal but the original publisher of the Sherlock Holmes stories) He kept a witchcraft museum , he was a luminary of the Folklore Society and later the Druids, in 1940 he became the published author of a novel on witchcraft. And he had a research interest in the history of Essex witchcraft. I think we have to agree that the chances that by the late forties he knew about Canewdon and its six witches approach certainty, even without the testimony of
Cecil Williamson.

Furthermore any serious investigation into witchcraft in Canewdon would virtually certainly have turned up some of the same people Maple etc turned up. They would have told him about Pickingill.

So.....how likely is it that he did conduct such an investigation? "

I note there was NO response by dear old Amber on this particular subject again! Again that is decidedly odd. She has taken every other opportunity to make Jeremy look silly she thinks she has seen .. so certainly being in the position of having an edge and not using it - well that is odd.

Consider this from the text, The History of The Museum of Witchcraft :

" ....Cecil moved back to his beloved West Country and in 1961 the museum relocated to Boscastle where it has remained for over forty years. ... Cecil ran the Museum until 1996 when at midnight on 31st October he sold it to the current owners." (http://www.museumofwitchcraft.com/about_mow2.php)

Sooooo .... again ... I think it is ODD. there seem to be very odd points at which Amber decides to say nothing or remember nothing. Don't YOU think it is "odd"?

Let's read again:

Re: spell bottles, history of.
« Reply #23 on: 2009/Jan/16 @ 22:32:06 »

Quote
Have you ever been to the museum?

Better then that I worked there for a few week during the summer of1977. of course that was in the days of Cecil Williamson who was more interested in a genuine museum of witchcraft then a tourist attraction.

I must say I find myself saying: "So you remember that ... but only selectively - well ok fair enough .... but what are we to make of these odd blanks that happen where Canewdon is concerned? Are the blanks on Cecil and Canewdon related in some way? Could they be because they both deal with a subjet Amber is decidedly uncomfortable about?" *shrugs* I am sure I am being overly suspicious and shoudl apply to my words here some I read somewhere recently. How did they go again? Oh yes I remember now:

"Here is a theory. Based on nothing but my own supposition and a few bits and pieces that have come up on this thread and in other places ... but I'm going to outright say that it is mostly guesswork and may be an unproveable hypothesis. As I said, this is based on nothing but my own insight into the situation... but I can't help but wonder if something along these lines is going on"

(Reply #23 on: 2009/Jan/13 @ 14:50:57, Re: George Pickingill - the man, the family, and those connected to him in any way on Pagan Network, http://www.pagan-network.org/forums/index.php?topic=25767.15)

Yes indeed. Let it be not said that I don't abide by my own rules!

Again, all that aside, let us now consider the latest is from Amberlady on the subject of an interesting blank:

Re: George Pickingill's nine covens


« Reply #709 on: Today at 09:28:53 »

Quote from JeremyTrewinDixon
have you noticed that she does not name anyone at all in Canewdon that she has spoken to about Pickingill?

There is a good reason that, it was all about thirty years ago, I was a teenager and frankly I can't remember their names. Not being as anal retentive as you I never thought to take notes at the time."

My what a selective memory! (Lets ignore the lack of written evidence - how embarassing an omission in front of all the so called academically inclinded!!)

"It comes and it goes it comes and it goes .. but I remember that I am right though!!!" seems to be the order of the day. I have a suspicion here that she still believes that jeremy is Bill and is referring to the fact that he said he took notes years ago. Still, even that aisde, she is demonstrating the ability to be amazingly vague about some things - oddly these bits seem to be those that don't advance her current position. I do note that Amber is crystal clear on others that do support her current position.

I shan't even go into two particular points she has made in the past about how vague and nebulous Bill is and how when he requests information without expecting it to be forthcoming it is the "pot calling the kettle black". That would be petty of me to insist upon but innaccruate of me to leave out so I will leave it as is and let the reader make up their own mind.

Of course this convenient blacking of memory is not just something that happens about the past (especially the year 1977!) it also occurs in relation to current history such as the confusion between the statements.

"Occasionally a local would also tell the story of Old George, a farm labourer who lived to a great age and was thought of as a witch, even more occasionally somebody would mention the story that while the church tower stood there would be witches in Canewdon even though several other Essex village boast the same including nearby Hadleigh home of James (Cunning) Murrell whose story was well known among local folklorist and historians."

(1/18/08 01:19 pm , Campaign for Resurrection of Authentic Paganism (C.R.A.P.), http://the-amberlady.livejournal.com/21188.html)

and of course,

"the biggest dificulty being that i lived in Canewdon, I heard the oral history and ther eis no mention of George being any sort of magical worker or even cunning person, he was simply a bad tempered old man who was though to have lived to an exceptionally great age"

(12/09/08 08:04:06, Rely # 592 George Pickingill's Nine Covens on Pagan Network, http://www.pagan-network.org/forums/index.php?topic=19416.585)

How the memory cheats us. I must say had I made both of those two statements ... I expect someone would be fast to point out that I was either possessed of an odd memory, confused or simply a liar.

I wonder which one(s) Amber is?

I wonder which one(s) others consider her to be?

I have my suspicions about which one(s) I think she is.